Kestenberg Archive

Interview 1: RR (F) was born in Otwock, Poland, near Warsaw, in September 1939, an only child. She has no memories of her childhood. Most of her extended family perished during the war. Her mother had five siblings, only one of her uncles survived. The father's family had a fancy candy store in Otwock. They had to move into the Otwock Ghetto when she was about one year old. In the Ghetto they witnessed hunger and death, but survived because they had a small food store. She and her mother fled when she was almost three. At that point, the Germans killed the "unnecessary" people such as women and children, and left only the men who served as guards in the Ghetto. They ran from village to village for two or three months with false papers and managed to save their lives several times. While hiding in a hayloft they once saw people being shot. RR knew she has to keep quiet not to endanger them. Hunger, desperation and deep anxiety dominated their lives. Her mother left her in an Orphanage in Otwock, ran by Catholic nuns. Only one nun knew that she was Jewish. She rehearsed her new name, Tereza Wysocka with her mother. During her childhood she had to change her name three times, the names of her closest relatives, religion, home, languages (hair color?) and friends. Her mother came three times to visit her, RR remembers nothing. Only one Polish underground lady, Irka, knew where RR was hiding. RR plans to see Irka on her visit to Poland later that year. RR has the feeling that she was treated well in the Orphanage, though she was told that she was spanked for wetting her bed. She stayed in the Orphanage for two years and was returned to her parents in Warsaw before the war ended. She did recognize her parents after two years apart. In the orphanage she became antisemitic and stayed like that also after the war. ; Her parents gave her the choice whether or not to be Jewish. She reluctantly accepted. RR says that she started what became a later habit: To make the decisions expected of her and then convincing herself retrospectively that she took the decision of her own will. She and her parents were transferred after the war to Landsberg rehabilitation camp in Germany. RR's earliest memories start there, they are very vague, and JK tries to fill them with details. RR claims that she wants to remember but is unable to. She underwent hypnosis for this purpose, without success. They moved to Antwerp, Belgium, in 1946, and stayed there for four years. The family was in Israel for some months and moved to the USA for economic reasons when RR was 11. RR was picked on in the orphanage, at school in Belgium and later in the US. She excelled at school and succeeded to get Americanized very fast. After her years at school she went to a fashion school for two years and then to college. RR is a sculptor. She got married and stayed home with the kids when they were young. She fought with her mother for years after she left home. Their relationship has improved lately. She is 45 at the time of the interview. RR started psychotherapy. "Not all my problems are the result of my Holocaust experience". JK wants to help her regain her own memory. RR is sensitive to noise, smells, touch and vision. She has had a tic of her eye for several years. Three years prior to the interview she had a period of acute depression. ; Interview 2: RR was on an anti depressant drug, after trying to fight depression without medications for a long time. She went to Poland with her husband and parents. Her mother was agitated and everyone had to obey and please her. She was unbearable and made everyone miserable. As soon as RR got home after the trip, she became severely depressed. She stopped working and eating, had troubled sleep. She almost lost control on herself. At the time of the interview she was on antidepressant medications. RR met in Poland the nun that accepted her to the orphanage and two ladies who were in the orphanage with her. One was her protector, ten years older than her. RR had her name changed three or four times in her childhood. Her religion was changed and forced upon her. She was left handed and forced to become right handed. Her mother said that her father is no good, and she should obey her mother to avoid becoming like him, which would be her natural tendency. Her looks, her hair and skin color were dangerous. Maybe it has to do with her obsession about her hair. (She used to spend an hour on cutting her hair, and couldn't stop.) RR says that she is not aware of being furious at her mother. (Her fury shows clearly in many instances throughout the interview). JK is trying to help RR build her own identity. Her mother did not allow that, she forced her point of view on her daughter.